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Join Adam Gillard and Dick Wilkinson while they talk politics and community engagement in Pikes Peak region.
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PACT Act updates w/ Mike Walljasper
Join us as we navigate the labyrinth of VA benefits with our guest, Mike Walljasper, a seasoned veteran of the VA DBA office. Mike, who's been with the VA since 2006, provides an insider's view into the transformative shifts that the VA has undergone, from paper to digital, and how these changes have significantly improved the way veterans are served, even amidst a global pandemic.
Prepare for a deep dive into the PACT Act as Mike shares the triumphant stories of over 8,500 Colorado veterans who have reaped retroactive benefits from it. We'll also talk about the evolution of transitioning from active duty to reserve over the years. Listen now to gather the essential information straight from a seasoned VA professional.
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Hello everyone and welcome to the All Things Military and Veteran podcast. My name is Adam Gillard, I am your host, and this is brought to you by the El Paso County, colorado Progressive Veterans. We're a progressive veterans group that just helps other vets find the resources that they've earned and other opportunities that are in the community for them. So if you're a vet and you need some help with housing, food banks, things like that, just reach out. You can find us at epccpvorg. Then you can email us at info at epccpvorg. I hope to hear from you.
Speaker 1:Today's podcast I'm going to have on a member from the VA named Mike Wall Jasper. He's going to give us some information on the PACT Act and just kind of the benefits there and how to apply for those things. Before we get to that, though, I want to talk to you real quick about the Democrats gala coming up October 21st. That starts at 6pm. If you don't have your tickets already and you're interested in going, reach out to me. There's always some opportunities. So if you want to come hang out, rub elbows with some folks that are trying to make some big changes here in El Paso County, just reach out to me and we'll see if we can get you a seat somewhere.
Speaker 1:Then also, I wanted to bring up our groups breakfast on Veterans Day 11-11 up at Persephone's Cafe in Manitou Springs Persephone Grays Cafe, excuse me, up in Manitou Springs. That'll be from 7-10.30. We'll be up there. We're still kind of working on the parking and things like that. We're exactly the park and some other organizations are looking at joining us too. So it should be a good day for us. So just plan on being up in Manitou Springs on Veterans Day for breakfast at Persephone's Cafe in Manitou Springs. All right, and now we will get into my conversation with Mike Waljaspur from the VA. He's here to talk with us about some pack-to-ac stuff. So here we go. Alright, joining me today is Mike Waljaspur. He is with the VA DBA office. Mike, thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. Uh, it's always good to get you guys on here and get you know the facts straight from the horse's mouth, because there's always so much Misperceptions and things like that when it comes to what's going on with the VA. So the really appreciate you taking the time to come out and talk to my folks here. Start off, tell me a little bit about yourself, how long you've been with the VA, where you come from. All that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure so, mike Waljaspur. I've been with the VA since the summer of 2006. I'm retired Air Force. I started working for the VA immediately after my retirement from the Air Force. Been Been in the Denver Regional Office since January of 2023 so fairly recent here but I've had. I've worked at the Anchorage office and then also worked at our San Antonio out based location. And all of that is in regard to benefits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were talking a little bit before we came on here about that Anchorage office. Like my cousin just left Alaska and he's an outdoorsy guy and everything I hear from people is they absolutely loved it up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty, it's and lots of good fishing. How long were you up there for? Total of about 10 years, 10 or 11 years, yeah.
Speaker 1:I was.
Speaker 2:Air Force assigned up there, and then my time with the VA.
Speaker 1:Oh, so you retired out of there.
Speaker 2:Well, I retired out of Brook City base is no longer a base in the Air Force inventory In 2006 and then moved back to Alaska because that was my previous duty assignment. So I lived up there for a time after, while I worked for Department of Veterans Affairs.
Speaker 1:So, coming in at 2006, you've seen quite an evolution of like VA services. Because, you know, back in your 2010 11 time frame, where we had all those long, long waiting periods and things like that, you've really seen, you know, quite a evolution here. How was it? You know, from the beginning of your time in the VA to you know what is now like, like, how have you seen that grow?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and it's it's been a great transformation. There's things that I've seen and how quickly the VA has put them in place. I just threw out a few examples. You know, when I started with the VA in 2006, your workload were claim folders. I mean, I started as a claims processor and and your workload Were claims folders with veterans claims, all their medical documentation, their claim. There was all certain Within a three-part folder. There were all certain sections where different documents would go and you'd you'd work through those that folder and process a claim. The we transformed to to all digital Several years ago and and that has.
Speaker 1:It's kind of wild to think that in 2006 you were still using folders like that, like With so much data and everything in 2006,.
Speaker 2:You know, that's kind of the boom of, you know, social media and Cloud storage and all that, and yeah, well, the going paperless was was quite an undertaking, yeah, with with everything, we had the inventory and so it really took A strong, strong efforts from our administration Down to. You know, obviously it was costly, but you, you look at how that has has really propelled us through the years. And processing veterans claims. You look at some of the pandemic is the most recent one. What would we have done if we still had, you know, claims in folders at the office? You know right, we got through that by, by folks working from home Utilizing as a cure net network to dial in on. So, yeah, it has really transformed the VA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great point. You know how many people would have just been sitting on claims and processes and, yeah, that's awesome that you guys are able to still be effective even though you know being shut down like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So, you know, the big thing hitting veterans right now, or you know, in the news recently, was, you know, the PAK DAC and the first big deadlines coming up or past. You know came back in August to believe it was where they had the first deadlines to. You know, for you to backdate and all that, I'm not that deadlines passed. Is the PACT Act still something that veterans need to be going out and actively asking about scheduling appointments for? What's the future of, you know, the PACT Act?
Speaker 2:That's a great question and, of course, the PACT Act isn't wasn't a short-term legislation. It is a legislation that's now built into how VA processes claims. The bill in itself is called the Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxins the acronym for PACT and the PACT Act of 2022. You mentioned, yeah, the deadline for the year was 10, august of 2023. That was a year prior or a year post it being signed, and that date indicated that veterans would be entitled to benefits back to the date that the original bill was signed, august 20, or, I'm sorry, august 10th of 2022. That did get extended for a few days because of some issues they were having, but it is now passed. But okay, it is now passed in the relation to veteran getting back benefits to that key date of August 10th of 2022. The legislation is still on our books and the legislation is still how the VA operates for these claims and let me just the law expands health care and benefits for veterans exposed to burn, pit and other toxic substances and that helps them to provide generations of veterans and their survivors with the care and benefits they've earned and deserve.
Speaker 2:I want to tell just a quick story. It's several years ago I think it was October of 2020. Secretary or Deputy Secretary. I'm sorry, donald Remy was in San Antonio. I happened to be in San Antonio at the time and he asked me to accompany him to a round table to address some veterans issues, and I did, and in that round table we had a lot of veterans that had came and it was hosted by Wounded Warrior and their nice facility there in San Antonio, and a lot of these veterans sitting around that table had some pretty serious health issues that they related to what they were exposed to, particularly in the goal from the post 9-11. And at the time, in October of 2020, there weren't a lot of answers that we could provide those folks who were really going through a difficult time being denied benefits from the VA because these conditions weren't on our books. So it was frustrating. It was frustrating to leave that session without really giving them a clear answer. And then, lone Behold, you know this bill was passed a short time later.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I can't imagine how hard that would be to look at them and be like just kind of shrug your shoulders Like we know you're messed up, but we were working on it, you know.
Speaker 2:Right, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's tough. But yeah, like you said, good thing, you know it got passed and it's a thing for us. Now you know it's actually or it's recognized that you know these things, that sometimes it's hard to even put like words to the symptoms, you know, but we got some legislation to help us. You know, try to at least get some services for it.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that was awesome, right? One of the other parts of your question not to interrupt you had mentioned is it's still valid and I think, part of when we had the big push leading up to August 10th of 2023 that, hey, it's the one year anniversary. We were more so just encouraging veterans to get in on that pay date, but I really want to reiterate that this is on our books, this is how we're processing claims and if any of these benefits you're entitled to, please apply.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know there's folks out there that still think that they don't apply, because I I did an event a few days after the deadline where I was talking with a lot of veterans and they thought it was just kind of a one and done type of thing and it's like no guys get out there, like you need to get this in your records and you know the VA still offers appointments for you know the packed act so they can go through your records and help you out. So, yeah, definitely make make the phone calls. Once people make these phone calls, though, what are they kind of some of the expected timeframes they can expect when it comes to appointment times, processing times, things like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So for now, I mean for the, the appointment timelines, it really depends on the condition. We use a lot of contract vendors for our examinations and kind of along their timeline. You know, we we recently had a claims clinic, just prior to this deadline expiring, down in Colorado Springs where some of those vendors were in attendance and doing exams on the spot. But you know, for for the great thing about the, the pack act and what it brings to us, is it? It put forth a lot of presumptive conditions, and I kind of want to explain what presumptive is.
Speaker 2:So the VA as we get, as we get claims for for various items, that that a veteran is applying for benefits, something that occurred in service, there's a couple of things that we need to do as claims processors. We need to, we need to look at the, at what is being claimed and while just throwing an example out of, say, a left knee condition Okay, so is. Is there a diagnosis for a left knee condition? And if that the answer is yes, then was there an event in service that also involved this left knee? And and that's, of course, where we we review the, the medical records, and then is there a current condition? And we kind of tie those in and that's what equates to, you know, a rating decision and a percentage zero to a hundred percent, and where we award the veteran, based on that injury or illness, presumptive conditions.
Speaker 2:Take out one of those pieces, right? So presumptive means that if you were in or if you were exposed to Agent Orange or if you were in the Middle East, we presume. If you have a condition that we list there's several conditions that were, that were attached to the PAC Act bill and you have one of those, at that point all we need is a diagnosis. We don't need to go back into your service treatment records and here's, here's, why that's so important. You look at toxic exposure. A lot of these conditions take years to manifest.
Speaker 1:Some of the cancer.
Speaker 2:some of the respiratory Agent Orange was a default that was used in in Vietnam and other areas and so, having used that, years after that exposure, sometimes veterans experienced illnesses related to that exposure. So the presumptive condition just means that we from the VA can say, okay, they were in this area, we don't. I don't need to look at their service treatment records to see you know where they exposed to Agent Orange or were they exposed to some type of burn pit? Just using an example over in the Middle.
Speaker 1:East. Well, and also it doesn't have to be one of the big ones like Agent Orange that you know got dumped on folks, but like JPA, like just regular, like jet fuel, like I can't count the times that I've been in clouds of that and like taking them, you know a bath and that you know, and that's that's a known carcinogen there. So it's even some of just the day to day stuff that we would handle. You know are the same way, are known carcinogens that are going to have long term effects on us, you know so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and and you know, like I say, the presumptive for us as far as the claims processing, at that point we don't need to look anymore in the service treatment records We've got. We've got that condition. Now we need a diagnosis and then what's the current level, and then we can, we can rate accordingly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know you talk about the rating. I think it's important for you to understand too that there's kind of two sides to the process. There's, you know, treatment side and the rating side, and they're they're not the same, you know. So a lot of times people will go to their like a VA doctor and expect them to deal with the rating issue and stuff like that, and VA doctors don't touch that right, they don't do nexus letters or anything like that. Is that? Is that true?
Speaker 2:I'm glad you brought that up and a lot of times we get we get concerns from veterans that hey, you know that I was seen, but but it didn't seem like it was a true exam. And you hit the nail on the head. You know our vendors and some of our VHA folks, when they're doing what we call a comp and pen pension examination, what they're doing is just giving us a snapshot of whatever you've claimed. If we'll go back to the left knee example, they're doing flexion and things like that. They're not trying to treat that left knee for you at that point we're going to.
Speaker 2:You know this service connection entitles you to healthcare, which is another great benefit, correct and so. But at that point in time, and we're doing our what we call C&P exams, they're trying to give the VBA a snapshot of where where that condition is today so that we can rate it accordingly. And I would add I don't think I answered your question on the timeframe Claims right now are taking about 120 days and the exam's going to fall within that period. Yeah, I don't have a specific because it does depend on the condition from your previous question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know the they get scheduled for the exam happens pretty quickly, like after I've done my things with my VSO. It happens pretty quickly where you get notified like a show up here at this date, you know. So it's pretty quick process once you get it rolling, all right. So you kind of talked about it a little bit here, where you know the PACT Act has offered some new things. What are some of the new things? That this that this PACT Act has added to the presumptives? Because I've heard people say, you know in my travels that this is just a political stunt. Everything that the PACT Act is doing was being done already. They just wanted to repackage it and, you know, make it a political stunt for for votes. You know what new stuff has been added to the PACT Act that just wasn't there before.
Speaker 2:Okay, sure, the quite a bit has been added and you know I've already mentioned the presumptives, but I can go through a few of those of note and then a lot of areas that were added. And so prior to I think one of the biggest ones we can start with with our Vietnam era veterans, one of the presumptives that was added to this bill was hypertension due to exposure to age and orange. That was a big one and I know there's been a lot, of, a lot of folks from our veteran service officers talking with, you know, our congressional folks, about adding that as a presumptive. So that was added in this bill. We're seeing a lot of claims in that regard. And then, prior to the bill, there really wasn't when we talk about the Gulf War and the post-911, there really weren't any conditions that were presumptive to that. It was basically what we called undiagnosed illness and those were claims a little harder to navigate. But they have now included a multitude of areas, mostly in the Middle East, and then of course the post-911 is Afghanistan, egypt, jordan, lebanon, syria, uzbekistan and Yemen.
Speaker 2:Those kind of countries added to the presumptive areas. And then some of the presumptive conditions you'll notice in the Gulf War or the Gulf region in both post-911 and the Gulf War. There's a lot of respiratory asthma and there's also a lot of cancer sprained cancer, kidney cancer, lymphoma, a couple of those different ones, neck cancer, pancreatic cancer. Back on the respiratory you got rhinitis, anatitis, things like that. So those are conditions that were added and then those areas and there's time frames that define where you were when you were over there. So what the VA has done, we've kind of partnered with DOD in this regard to help out in getting DOD records to place that veteran there. So it's not on the burden to the veteran.
Speaker 1:I've heard that from a few folks where they say that they just got letters that their rating was like up to something like that and they just went in for their appointment and that was it and everything was kind of done behind the scenes and they got a bump in their rating. So there's something being done with the process to expedite things and that's helping awesome folks. That's really cool that you guys are doing that.
Speaker 2:And there's clearly a lot of this that's new. We couldn't process before the PAC Act. These weren't on the books, so it's certainly. It's probably the most overarching legislation I've seen in my time in the VA, or in fact it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you said, I mean it's spanned in multiple generations and it kind of covers everything just as a blanket, like yeah, you guys are exposed to some stuff, let's take care of you. Yeah, it's great to see that they're actually taking the time to help take care of the vets. There's still, obviously, things we need to work on, but I love the act and I think it was a great way forward. Have we seen any impacts on the drop in, like pandemic era funding and things like that? Has there been any programs being cut for our veterans? None, that is awesome.
Speaker 2:We've heard none. And you know we spoke before about operating through the pandemic and you know something that it would have certainly would have been difficult to do had we not had the right posture. But the way the VA works, you know we were fully digitized and then we have what we call a national work queue which distributes work. So, in that regard, we folks went home, they utilized a secure VPN network on their home computer and continue to work. You know, we, I think we went home maybe on a Friday, everybody was up and going on a Monday, a few hiccups and boom they were. We were back processing claims and we worked throughout the pandemic and no cutting funding anytime during that.
Speaker 1:Do you guys still exercise that work from home?
Speaker 2:We do that's good. We saw some efficiencies there. Most of our workforce is required to report to a brick and mortar twice per pay period, which is once every week. Essentially, Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that, because one we never know when we're going to go back into a situation like that. So, like, why have the same hiccups standing everything up when? If you can just keep things warm, you know, and make sure that your systems are up and ready and, you know, all those VPNs are, you know, still functional, I think it's a great idea. And then, not to mention the whole saving gas and just mental welfare of you guys trying to process all these things, I think staying home helps out a lot. Oh, absolutely. It's really cool. You guys kept that, kept doing that, you know.
Speaker 2:Well, and I mean we got to be competitive in this market now with other agencies who have also realized that, hey, you know I can, I can still do a bottom line if my employees, you know, are working from home. So I wanted to mention we've hired over 6,300 claims processors since the pack in relation to the PAC Act and then over 2000 in our public contact and that's the folks who outreach our veterans. This is all a result to get in front of the PAC Act and make sure that we have the necessary claims processor so that we don't come into a backlog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that was one of the big things with the proposed NDA earlier this year where they were talking about cutting 6,000 VA members. Like one of the first proposals and that was one of the things I pointed out was like if you do this, this is who you're going to affect and it's not. You may not be cutting a vets resources, but if you cut the VA and their people, that affects the vets. Like it seems common sense to me, but like you can't say you're not going to affect vets and still cut 6,000 jobs from the VA for people that are helping the vets directly. That's not on the table now, you know, or since their last CA or CR, but they're going into their whole shut down thing now and you know what will be the impact if the government shuts down to the VA.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the impact to the VA. We have limited operating budgets to go a little further than kind of the cutoff as it exists now. And then you know we do have, you know from a furlough standpoint if you want, you know the folks who wouldn't be working. It's going to be. There are going to be some business lines within the VBA but claims process and we'll continue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know people's appointments and things like that. I think I read somewhere that it was like 96% of VA jobs are or functions excuse me, not jobs but their functions will be untouched by it because there is a law in place, you know, stating that VA will be funded.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what they call it is accepted from the furlough status.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, um, yeah, yeah. So you know, our VA will still be up and running and everything should be fine come, you know, the second of October, when the government shuts down again.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, what was that oh?
Speaker 1:No, I was just making a statement. I was saying, like the VA will still be up and running. Yes, you know, like for people's appointments on October 1st and October 2nd. You know they're, they're still gonna. They should still show up for their scheduled appointments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can't speak much for the health side, but I'm pretty pretty clear that they're they're gonna remain. The health care workers are going to still be in force.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you know, kind of you know wrap up on some wins here, what are some of the wins that you feel or you've seen from the PACT act and you know, getting veterans there their benefits that they've earned.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely that great question. I'll just take Colorado. We've had over 13,000 Colorado veterans filed for PACT related. Nearly eight, eight or well, actually over 8,500 of those have been now resolved and delivering over 30 million in retroactive Benefits to those, to those veterans who filed. Well, 30 million retroactive, yeah, and that's just.
Speaker 2:Colorado just in Colorado there's there's nearly 80% grant rate and that's that's really key because you know we talked before about a presumptive condition and how that kind of eases the process for the VBA and with you know, 80% grant rate is is very, very significant. So there's there's been a lot of veterans who, of course, have had illnesses and and unfortunately, you know, some of them we, you know we didn't get to in time but have had illnesses for a while and Waiting on this legislation, and now we were able to grant those benefits and, and you know, reward them, you know, for what they've deserved.
Speaker 1:So you know, I'm right on board that, for you know what they deserve. Portion how do you get through to vets, or what do you say to a vet that says, like you know, I'm fine, I don't deserve this, I don't need this? Like, what do you do to reach out to those type of folks and like, how do you get them to understand that, like it's okay to say that you've earned this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's, and there are a few. And I've talked to him and is like you know this, these benefits were enacted for you. You're not taking them from anybody, they're open to everybody. I think some veterans feel like, well, if I, you know, I didn't do this or that and my buddy did, and and therefore they, they don't apply, you're not, you're not taking any benefits from anybody else. These are all individual. We make claims, decisions individually and the end it's not, you're not taken from anybody. And and these are things that you know it's a tax-free benefit and you served your country and if you got injured or An illness was caused by it, you, you deserve to be Compensated and that's, that's what we're here for mm-hmm, and I think a lot of.
Speaker 1:Well, some of the folks that I talked to, they failed to recognize that like how much stress and Just kind of ease of mind they can receive or less stress, I guess, and ease of mind they can receive from just a you know, a couple hundred dollars more from from the VA. You know, if you're not struggling for you know an extra bill here and there, it's gonna have some long-term effects on you like mentally. You know, you know that to help you out down the road. So Even if you're only gonna get the 10% for tonight, is that's still your phone bill for the month, you know. So I, you know I can't encourage people enough to get out there and you just just just ask make sure that you're you're getting what you've earned. Because, yeah, we get put in places where you know we're exposed to things and it just happens. So it's good that you know the government's trying to make an active effort and hopefully they you know they keep it up with their, with their funding Did to help take care of us on the back end.
Speaker 1:You said that you retired in 2006 and that got me thinking. Also, you saw you more than just the transition through the VA. But before that you saw the transition from the you know post Cold War or Cold War era into the you know warrant era and things like that and beyond. How was it Coming out? You know for your, for your folks, before 9-11 and you know before, actually today, even you know when they were separating. How was the VA process for them? You know, back in the early 2000, late 90s.
Speaker 2:So I you know the process. As far as you talking about transition from military to the civilian, is that what you're asking?
Speaker 1:yeah, cuz I do with a lot of people from that time era and trying to get them to understand that the process is different now is just they're so Just, you know, disenfranchise from the whole process, that it's hard to get them to even try.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I see where you're going.
Speaker 1:So you know back then what people were dealing with and being you know some of them feel like they were just can kind of get tossed to the side. Did you have any experience with that, what you know, during your time in the service?
Speaker 2:So I didn't get too involved in it, but I do know what you're talking about and you know it used to be. They would you know at the end, if you were separated and retiring. They'd corral you on, typically a Friday and you report to To a briefing room and they talk about VA benefits and then you know the Folks who who were diligent and it's about a four-hour briefing. They would take down some notes and then they could apply for benefits and you know it was some. It was a little more difficult to navigate. A lot of it wasn't automated, it had to be done on a form. Vso's were, have always been very helpful Making that transition our veteran service officers. But you know, if you didn't, if you didn't know to go to them, sometimes, then you would wait For a period of time and maybe a buddy would tell you to apply or somebody wouldn't, and you'd go ahead and apply and and if you wait for for over a year, there's a couple things that happens there. So if you get out saying I, I got out September of 2006. So if you wait till September 2007 beyond that one year there's a couple things that happen. First of all, you won't be afforded an exam for everything you're claiming Because you've waited longer than a year. Now they're gonna have to go back and search through your service treatment records and determine, you know, was there an event and service that led to this? And then the other thing is there there was back pay. They pay you the date, the date after separation from service. That was the pay date for you.
Speaker 2:So Some folks, you know, when they, when they filed their claim, if they waited too long maybe Didn't get a good result and and weren't too happy with that We've really got on the front end now and better than than in 2006 when I got out to try to A ramp up and ensure veterans are fouling. You know we have benefits delivered at discharge. It's it's a clean process where they can actually start it while they're on active duty and so that that really bridges the gap. It's it's somewhere they've they filed the claim while they're on active. Every condition they filed for traditionally is going to get an exam because we're gonna have to see where the conditions at. And then the goal of that program obviously is deliver deliver those benefits, you know, at their discharge or shortly after. So we're trying to get better at that. But, yeah, the transition. When you go, go back, you know further than you know in the 90s or in such the, probably the, the advertisement and just the. You know, getting the word out wasn't as good as it is today right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, since the 90s we've actually, you know, changed our whole, our whole society kind of around this. You know the war on terror, so yeah, that's kind of to be expected there. Oh my, I know, when I separated, let me think it took me a few weeks to get my 214 so that I could send it in to like like finish off the VA side and get you know my, my benefits. And Getting my 214 after retirement was a longer process and it took for the VA to start my benefits. I think I ended up with like a month back pay just because my 214 took a month to to get my like official one to send in. But but but after that, like the VA was phenomenal and actually just Getting things done without you know much else, help for me. They just told me where to show up, went to my appointments and that's great to hear, relatively relatively easy.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2:I always like to hear the positive, but I want to hear the negative too. So we can, you know, look to correct things.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and it's funny because, uh, you know, the perspective I have is that you know when I first separate. So I separated active duty in like 2009, then came back in the reserves and finished out my career on like active reserves. So 2009 I separated and kind of went through kind of a bit of a headache of a process with the VA. Not not terrible. But I said when I retired, retired, the, the increase in, you know, customer service and time, you know the, the Expend, expend, expend.
Speaker 2:Expend.
Speaker 1:Expend, expend, exend, exend.
